Latest topics
» Return to the Clocktower...
by Mercury Wells Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:53 pm

» Here we go again?
by Mercury Wells Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:34 pm

» About to go into battle
by rovingjack Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:13 am

» How was your day thread (continued)
by rovingjack Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:44 am

» Spare goggles Exploration Journal entries
by rovingjack Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:30 am

» Is BG Down Again?
by GCCC Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:33 pm

» Things to do while Brassgoggles is down
by GCCC Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:28 pm

» Van living, fulltime RV
by rovingjack Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:36 am

» Due to High stress on the server, the site is temporarily unavailable."
by mwbaaailey Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:03 pm

» Rogues Gallery Incidental
by mwbaaailey Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:06 am

» Brass-Gogglers -
by J. Wilhelm Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:58 am

» BG down - domain expired
by oldskoolpunk Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:20 am

» Also found the way....
by The Bullet Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:20 pm

» So... anyone got something to talk about in the meantime?
by Mercury Wells Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:00 pm

» Is Brass Goggles down again?
by Argus Fairbrass Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:46 am

» Here we Go Again?
by mwbaaailey Thu May 08, 2014 11:34 pm

» We Have Reached Peak Beard!
by Captain Lyerly Sun May 04, 2014 4:23 am

» Heartbleed?
by Argus Fairbrass Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:20 am

RSS feeds


Yahoo! 
MSN 
AOL 
Netvibes 
Bloglines 


Statistics
We have 626 registered users
The newest registered user is Will Rockwell

Our users have posted a total of 7587 messages in 659 subjects

Etching - getting design to metal help!

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Etching - getting design to metal help!

Post  JingleJoe on Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:50 pm

I know I wrote the tutorial on etching but that was just the acctual act of etching, not the transfare of an image to the metal; With which I am having trouble now Mad
In the past I allways painted my designs on the metal but now I have something to etch which cannot be painted.
I read somewhere that someone printed thier image to be etched on to glossy paper and ironed it on but I've tried 3 or 4 different kinds of glossy paper and they didn't work, I've tried different iron temperatures, I've tried acetate but the ink just ran out over the design when I ironed that.

Can anyone please give me some help on transfaring my image from my computer to my brass? Crying or Very sad
avatar
JingleJoe
moderator

Number of posts : 186
Age : 28
Location : Liverpool, England
Registration date : 2008-09-12

View user profile http://www.greendungeon.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Etching - getting design to metal help!

Post  VonHart on Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:00 pm

I hear it has to be a laser printer. Its toner you want, not ink. Never done it myself, mind you, but I have some plans to try and etch my own PCB sometime soon, so I've been doing some research.
avatar
VonHart
gunner
gunner

Number of posts : 49
Registration date : 2008-09-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Etching - getting design to metal help!

Post  Zwack on Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:14 pm

Laser printer or photocopier on "as dark as possible" as you want a heavy layer of toner. The toner is basically melted onto the paper so glossy paper to make it easier to remove and iron it on...

Z.

Zwack
Comanding Officer

Number of posts : 223
Location : And introducing my wife, the wonderful Mrs Z.
Registration date : 2008-09-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Etching - getting design to metal help!

Post  LimeBerry on Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:29 pm

Many of you have likely seen this, but just in case some of you haven't:

Clickety

Mr. Slatt has several good etching DiYs and links to other sources with more detailed info on different steps.

As far as the toner vs ink goes, toner is designed to be "fused" (melted) to a surface as was noted prior to my post. Therefore, as ink likes to flit about as it sees fit, toner is much more well behaved when properly applied.

LimeBerry
crewhand
crewhand

Number of posts : 11
Age : 33
Location : Southeast US currently.
Registration date : 2008-09-30

View user profile http://fouryong.deviantart.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Etching - getting design to metal help!

Post  JingleJoe on Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:19 pm

Thankyou everyone! I think I will be able to complete something amazing now thanks to you Very Happy
avatar
JingleJoe
moderator

Number of posts : 186
Age : 28
Location : Liverpool, England
Registration date : 2008-09-12

View user profile http://www.greendungeon.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Etching - getting design to metal help!

Post  LimeBerry on Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:09 pm

I, for one, eagerly await the results of this endeavor. Smile

LimeBerry
crewhand
crewhand

Number of posts : 11
Age : 33
Location : Southeast US currently.
Registration date : 2008-09-30

View user profile http://fouryong.deviantart.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Etching - getting design to metal help!

Post  Prof Eumides Blakehurst on Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:33 am

A similar idea is used in transferring the track design for printed circuit boards. There is a product that goes through the laser printer or photocopier and is then ironed onto the PCB copper.

It's easier to remove the backing off this stuff than glossy paper since that's what it's designed to do, it just peels off leaving the transfer in place.

Out this way it's referred to as 'Blue Transfer' and if you're in any hobbyist electronics place they'll know what you mean.
avatar
Prof Eumides Blakehurst
gunner
gunner

Number of posts : 56
Location : Canberra, Australia
Registration date : 2008-09-30

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Etching - getting design to metal help!

Post  Professor Damien Tremens on Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:53 am

Mr. Von Slatt's tutorials are excellent. I would also point out the
Art Jewelry magazine issue for November 2008, which has an
article that describes etching using plain salt water and a D-cel
battery.

On a side note, I'm intrigued by the possibilities in this new
"Metal Clay" material (just found out about it via an article in the
magazine mentioned above) for various types of embellishment.
I do believe some serious experimentation is in order.

Professor D. Tremens

Professor Damien Tremens
powder monkey
powder monkey

Number of posts : 5
Location : Dallas, TX
Registration date : 2008-10-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Etching - getting design to metal help!

Post  Zwack on Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:26 am

Metal clay is interesting stuff but...
1) it shrinks.
2) it has to be baked.

This makes it very hard for me to judge whether it would be any use for the sorts of things I want to do with it. I suspect it wouldn't. Sad

Z.

Zwack
Comanding Officer

Number of posts : 223
Location : And introducing my wife, the wonderful Mrs Z.
Registration date : 2008-09-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Etching - getting design to metal help!

Post  Jemima Annabelle Clough on Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:03 pm

The shrinkage is consistent across each type, so you can adjust for it; and small pieces can be fired with a torch - I've done leaves that way which turned out quite well. If I can find them again, I'll post pics! One of the types can also apparently be fired on a gas hob - I'd imagine that again would only work for small pieces though. Otherwise you'd need a kiln.

Jemima Annabelle Clough
officer
officer

Number of posts : 135
Location : Surrey, Uk
Registration date : 2008-09-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Etching - getting design to metal help!

Post  Zwack on Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:51 pm

The problem is that I was thinking of making a band for the top of a walking stick. I can't fire it on the stick and trying to make sure that it's the right size before shrinkage so that it would fit after shrinkage seems like it would be very tricky.

I've used craft porcelain and rub and buff for now and will replace it with tightly wound silver wire later.

Z.

Zwack
Comanding Officer

Number of posts : 223
Location : And introducing my wife, the wonderful Mrs Z.
Registration date : 2008-09-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Etching - getting design to metal help!

Post  Jemima Annabelle Clough on Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:35 pm

It would be doable with metal clay, but unless you want some really organic, curvy designs on it, it would probably be a lot easier using a small strip of sterling silver, or wire as you mentioned.

Jemima Annabelle Clough
officer
officer

Number of posts : 135
Location : Surrey, Uk
Registration date : 2008-09-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Etching - getting design to metal help!

Post  Pheobsky on Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:33 pm

Another alternative if you want a decorated strip of metal, is to bend the shape you want in wire, then lay it on the back of a thin sheet of metal ( I suggest getting this by asking chinese/fish & chip shops if theyve got any oil tins they're throwing out/checking round the back to see if there are any empties) & then beating the design out so its embossed in the metal. -Its a simple method, but very effective.
Also you dont have to bend the whole design in wire, you can simply move the single bit around to create lines as you wish.
avatar
Pheobsky
Ętheric engineer (admin)

Number of posts : 125
Age : 27
Registration date : 2008-09-12

View user profile http://sparegoggles.forumotion.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Etching - getting design to metal help!

Post  Zwack on Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:34 am

Sorry about the threadjacking but thank you for your suggestions. Smile

That is one of the things I like about Brass Goggles/Spare Goggles... the excellent side tracks and useful suggestions all around.

Z.

Zwack
Comanding Officer

Number of posts : 223
Location : And introducing my wife, the wonderful Mrs Z.
Registration date : 2008-09-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Etching - getting design to metal help!

Post  JingleJoe on Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:42 pm

The threadjack is fine, metal clay and bashing metal on wire are good sidetracks Smile

I tried the laser printer iron-on method but it didn't work very well Neutral
I think the only way I am going to be able to do this is with that Blue Transfer stuff (it's proper name is Press n' Peel I think) I found some mighty cheap on ebay and it comes in almost A4 size sheets so I'm going to buy some once I know the answer to my query which is;

Can you only print on Blue Transfer film with a laser printer or can you also photocopy your image on with an inkjet printer/scanner/photocopier?
avatar
JingleJoe
moderator

Number of posts : 186
Age : 28
Location : Liverpool, England
Registration date : 2008-09-12

View user profile http://www.greendungeon.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Etching - getting design to metal help!

Post  Mad Maxine on Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:26 pm

I minored in metal-smithing at one point, but it's been a while since I've etched. We used to paint the entire piece with resist, then scratch off what we wanted etched. In order to get the pattern transferred to the metal, we'd simply stick the design on a piece of paper over the metal, use a sharp pencil to trace the design, remove the paper, and start scratching off the resist.

If you have a really detailed design, this might be complicated. Would love to see a photo of what you have in mind.

I've also had some good luck transferring ink from photocopies onto fabrics or other sheets of paper by placing the photocopy face down on the fabric, then wiping the back of the photocopy with acetone. Note: Be sure do this outside away from sources of flame!

If you have minimal luck with transfers, but enough luck to get the design on the metal, you may be able to go back in with a series of fine brushes and paint on some additional resist.

Also, here's a link to a place in Seattle that has lots of excellent jewelry supplies. They may have some products or knowledge that could help you out. Send them an email, perhaps. I stopped in the shop one day and they were very helpful.

http://www.jewelryresourcesupply.com/

At any rate, it sounds like yours is a nifty project. Please let us know how it goes!
avatar
Mad Maxine
gunner
gunner

Number of posts : 64
Age : 49
Location : Seattle, WA
Registration date : 2008-09-13

View user profile http://www.myspace.com/mad_maxine

Back to top Go down

Re: Etching - getting design to metal help!

Post  JingleJoe on Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:04 pm

Mad Maxine wrote:
If you have a really detailed design, this might be complicated. Would love to see a photo of what you have in mind.
Thats exactly why I can't paint it, I wouldn't be able to get it accurate enough.

Thanks for the tips Smile
avatar
JingleJoe
moderator

Number of posts : 186
Age : 28
Location : Liverpool, England
Registration date : 2008-09-12

View user profile http://www.greendungeon.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Etching - getting design to metal help!

Post  Prof Eumides Blakehurst on Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:14 am

JingleJoe wrote:
Can you only print on Blue Transfer film with a laser printer or can you also photocopy your image on with an inkjet printer/scanner/photocopier?

Photocopier or laser printer for the blue stuff. I don't know if there are other types of the same product that can be used in an inkjet printer, but I do doubt it. They all rely on the fuseable plastic toner to work as the resist, it's just that the blue transfer film has been design to make the transfer of the fused toner design as easy as possible - certainly it's easier (and cheaper in Australia at least) than glossy laser photo paper...

In the worst case, print out your design from the inkjet printer and photocopy (on dark) onto the transfer film at a public library or equivalent.

Hope that helps a bit...
avatar
Prof Eumides Blakehurst
gunner
gunner

Number of posts : 56
Location : Canberra, Australia
Registration date : 2008-09-30

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Etching - getting design to metal help!

Post  Mad Maxine on Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:24 am

oooh! Two other options might include:

1) Pay to have a rubber stamp made of your graphic and stamp the resist on the metal...

http://www.picturemystamp.com/

2) Silk screening using photosensitive screen printing goo...

http://www.instructables.com/id/ERS7WR7MLTEQ2W3MP6/

Just an afterthought.
avatar
Mad Maxine
gunner
gunner

Number of posts : 64
Age : 49
Location : Seattle, WA
Registration date : 2008-09-13

View user profile http://www.myspace.com/mad_maxine

Back to top Go down

Re: Etching - getting design to metal help!

Post  Horse Brass on Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:43 am

JingleJoe wrote:
Can you only print on Blue Transfer film with a laser printer or can you also photocopy your image on with an inkjet printer/scanner/photocopier?

I haven't used the Blue Transfer film myself yet, as last time I saw it on sale locally it was ridiculously expensive. However, when I read up on it, it relies on the heat of the toner fuser, so it will only work in a laser printer, or as the good Prof Eumides Blakehurst suggests above, in a photocopier. Inkjet and related printers don't use heat.

I've been getting reasonable results by using the cheapest glossy inkjet photo paper in my old laser printer. It has so much plastic embedded into the paper to give it the glossy appearance that most things refuse to stick well to it, laser printer toner included. The only trouble I have is that I have to peel the paper off the brass afterwards because the plastic prevents the paper from coming off in water, and that tends to pick off tiny bits of toner that I would prefer to stay. I use a bit of model paint to cover the larger holes, and leave the pinprick sized holes alone. The tiny marks don't really show up in my avatar pic, but I think they give a bit of an aged and battered appearance.
avatar
Horse Brass
crewhand
crewhand

Number of posts : 12
Age : 49
Location : Antipodean colony
Flag :
Registration date : 2008-09-15

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Etching - getting design to metal help!

Post  Professor Damien Tremens on Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:36 am

[edited for added info]

I also have tried the laser toner on glossy inkjet paper method, and it worked
well for me. As seems to be the norm, the hardest part is removing the paper
without damaging the toner itself. I just used several hot water baths, alternating
with rubbing the paper off with first my fingers to get the bulk of the paper,
and then a toothbrush to get the final layer with all of the plastic. There were
some minor pinholes here and there (mainly due to bad patches in the laser print
itself I think) which I patched with fingernail polish.

I used the salt water and and a D-cel battery setup as explained in an article
from the November 2008 Art Jewelry magazine. All things considered I was very
surprised at how well it worked. I did hook 2 D cells up in series to up the voltage
applied, and it made a significant difference compared to the single battery.

This was just a test etch, and I think I need to improve upon several items, such
as using a larger etching container, better placement of the bubble tube, improved
positioning of the anode and electrode, and better ventilation.

Photo of the active etching tank, and this is after 8 minutes or so of etching.
Later on the saline etching solution takes on a more murky grey green color.


Photo of the used etchant, and both fresh brass and used anode.


Photo of the etched test plate. You can see along the top and bottom edges of the etched lines
how the color has changed a bit so it has a much more coppery tone. I'm fairly sure that this is
from the reduced etching solution movement because the bubbles didn't fully cover the entire
length of the plate in the solution. The plate was in the etching tank sideways, and the outer
edges of the plate hung outside of the main area of the bubble "curtain". The photo does not do
the etching justice. It is very crisp, and contrasts very well to the non-etched surface of the
brass even without any additional patina added to the etched lines. You can also see that I
forgot to mirror image the text, so that is something else to remember when you do this to make
sure any text reads correctly. The text itself is two different typefaces at 8 points. They are very
crisp, and I'm sure I could go down several more point sizes and still have the text be easily legible.
The skull measures 1-1/4" across and 1-3/4" high (not counting the spine) for a scale reference.


I've found that spray silicone lubricant takes off the toner quite nicely, with minimal effort.
This would also point to the importance of making sure that you have a grease free, totally
clean plate before you try to do the toner transfer, as otherwise the oils from fingerprints
or other contaminants will make the toner mask not adhere to the brass.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.


Prof. D. Tremens

Professor Damien Tremens
powder monkey
powder monkey

Number of posts : 5
Location : Dallas, TX
Registration date : 2008-10-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Etching - getting design to metal help!

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum