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What are Goths?

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Re: What are Goths?

Post  Cyril Fotheringay-Phipps on Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:07 pm

So where does this fellow with the big hat and the guitar fit in?

Goth Brooks, was it?

Something like that . . .

Er . . . GARTH Brooks.

Blasted trifocals!

Nevermind.

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Re: What are Goths?

Post  Silas Morgan on Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:33 pm

Dang...Dang...Dang.... Now I'm hijacking another thread.... Sorry it has absolutely nothing to do with Goth or Steampunk..... But I couldn't help myself after this post......
So where does this fellow with the big hat and the guitar fit in?

This is a comic that I did for one of the Pyrate Sketchbooks......

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

OK... We regret the inconvinence....now back to our regularly scheduled thread......
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Re: What are Goths?

Post  Cyril Fotheringay-Phipps on Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:02 am

So who is this "Silas Hand" fellow?
And did he ever hear of Hrothgar Addams?

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Re: What are Goths?

Post  TehZorch on Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:06 am

I guess tehZorch's comment ""Goth is Black and Silver, Steampunk is brown and brass." summed up what I've found so far...

To be fair, I cant claim this as my own saying - but I also honestly cant remember who I heard it from. It may be a Lilibat-ism...
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Re: What are Goths?

Post  Honeythorn on Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:15 am

Cyril Fotheringay-Phipps wrote:
Honeythorn wrote:Goths generally listen to a LOT of gothic Rock. Which is why goths are called goths.

But isn't that rather a tautology? . . . I believe that is the word . . . Yes, a tautology! I am sure that is right--I think.

If Goths listen to Goth Rock, then what it the producers of Goth Rock, are not in fact, Goths themselves? Are there Mock Goths? Or whatchamacallit? . . Pseudo Goths? Can and do Goths listen to anything else?--Besides Goth Rock, I mean? And does the mere act of listening make someone what that someone is?

But what makes it Goth and not, say Emo or just Morbidly Depressed?

The producers /makers of goth rock/Deathrock are all sorts of things. Many *coughEldritchcoughcough * won't even accept the term goth as they don't want to be tied down to a " label ". Some of them don't mind or care much. Many of the bands considered proto or early goth are generally called " post punk " Other bands such as Specimen for example, combined that with some Rocky horror style imagery and glam rock flamboyance in their music.

Goths listen to all sorts. I certainly do. I like a small selection of metal, folk, punk, Dark Ambient, Darkwave...the list goes on. Goth is simply the bigger portion of what I listen to, and I take part and involve myself in the subcultre and fashions and all that pertain .

READ THIS. www.scathe.demon.co.uk/ Click on history of goth. And go through the menu. VERY informative. The pictures of the progression of Scathe's hair is great haha!

Emo pertains to emotive hardcore and has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with goth. Depressed people are simply just depressed. End of. Wearing a lot of black doesn't make you depressed. Suffering from depression just might do it though Wink
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Re: What are Goths?

Post  Cyril Fotheringay-Phipps on Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:26 am

I thank you kindly for the informative--AND--amusing link.
The true Goths really are the fellows you will never see at the mall.

I especially liked the Black Sabbath disclaimer!

Thanks again.

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Re: What are Goths?

Post  Mr. Ethan Grammatikidis on Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:45 pm

Dax wrote:
Mr. Ethan Grammatikidis wrote:The hairy fellows eventually settled down and started building cathedrals and stuff. I've always assumed that the cathedrals and stuff -- Gothic architecture, influenced the name choice of the graveyard-and-poetry-lovers that I've always assumed all goths are. XD;

I'm afraid that's actually a fairly common misconception. By the later part of the dark ages, the Gothic tribes (after conquering the Western Roman Empire, terrorizing Greece, helping turn back the Huns, etc.,) were pretty much assimilated into the other tribes such as the Lombards and Burgundians. They no longer existed by the 7th - 8th centuries.

The use of the term Gothic, with regard to art and architecture, has no cultural connection with the Gothic peoples. It was adopted as a perjorative term by critics of the movement toward ornate structures and cathedrals that began in the early rennaissance, who considered the new architecture to be vulgar and tasteless - hence "gothic".

Ah that provides an answer for a few questions I had. I was not being overly serious in my comment, I must admit. All the same, it's starting to seem to me as if there are as many different theories on the rise and fall of the Goth people as their are historians.

Edit: Curious. I'm beginning on History of Goth on Scathe and am surprised to find mention of a band that... well... I knew I liked certain elements of musical style very much and rather suspected that there ought to be some genre that unified them, but being more than a little culturally disabled I had no idea what it might be. I eventually happened upon a TV program on Siouxie and the Banshees and that was it. Now I'm surprised to find the same band cited as possibly one of the earliest sources of the word "gothic" as applied to music.

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Re: What are Goths?

Post  KatarinaNavane on Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:03 pm

My impression hanging out with goths occasionally but from the outside of the movement is as follows: While goths may have some similarities in dress with those who call themselves (or are called) punk or emo, such as wearing a lot of black or having many piercings, the main difference between the three (to me) is attitude. All three have a certain disgust for the mainstream, but with the emo this disgust manifests itself in depression, often at the state of the world. The disgust manifests itself in punk with anger and outright rebellion. With goths it seems to manifest itself in a sort of indifference and separation. Goths are often perfectly cheery when amongst themselves (unless you get into the competitive "more goth than thou" goths who are rarely social or cheery in groups) but sometimes cynical when interacting with outsiders.

Please take this with a grain of salt, I may be way off, as this is coming from someone mostly on the outside. I just like to analyze social groups.
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Re: What are Goths?

Post  Pheobsky on Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:15 pm

Mr. Ethan Grammatikidis wrote:
Dax wrote:
Mr. Ethan Grammatikidis wrote:The hairy fellows eventually settled down and started building cathedrals and stuff. I've always assumed that the cathedrals and stuff -- Gothic architecture, influenced the name choice of the graveyard-and-poetry-lovers that I've always assumed all goths are. XD;

I'm afraid that's actually a fairly common misconception. By the later part of the dark ages, the Gothic tribes (after conquering the Western Roman Empire, terrorizing Greece, helping turn back the Huns, etc.,) were pretty much assimilated into the other tribes such as the Lombards and Burgundians. They no longer existed by the 7th - 8th centuries.

The use of the term Gothic, with regard to art and architecture, has no cultural connection with the Gothic peoples. It was adopted as a perjorative term by critics of the movement toward ornate structures and cathedrals that began in the early rennaissance, who considered the new architecture to be vulgar and tasteless - hence "gothic".

Ah that provides an answer for a few questions I had. I was not being overly serious in my comment, I must admit. All the same, it's starting to seem to me as if there are as many different theories on the rise and fall of the Goth people as their are historians.


Also I think its worth mensioning the gothic revival (On wikipedia here) & Gothic romanticism (On wikipedia here) as they not only gave rise to some rather impressive architecture, but also was rather instrumental in the modern day gothic culture- it was a victorian sub/mainstream part of culture too!
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Re: What are Goths?

Post  Mr. Ethan Grammatikidis on Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:53 am

Pheobsky wrote:[quotes snipped]

Also I think its worth mensioning the gothic revival (On wikipedia here) & Gothic romanticism (On wikipedia here) as they not only gave rise to some rather impressive architecture, but also was rather instrumental in the modern day gothic culture- it was a victorian sub/mainstream part of culture too!

Definitely worth mentioning, thanks.

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