Goth music not usually considered to be goth music

It's funny, things feel somehow different.
It's as if this is the same old Steampunk Forum and yet not!
Ah well, best get on ...

Green is a funny colour - there are good greens and bad greens. There are a lot of shades of green I hate but rich dark emerald green is a lovely colour. So it is with Country Music - I'm not keen on the sparkly Rhinestone Cowboy, "Countrypolitan" style, but as serious modern American folk music, I like it.

According to Wikipedia, Wichita Lineman has been referred to as 'the first existential country song': "Jimmy Webb was inspired to write the lyrics when he saw a solitary lineman in rural northern Oklahoma. The lyric describes the longing that a lonely telephone or electric power lineman feels for an absent lover who he imagines he can hear 'singing in the wire' that he is working on."

I am a lineman for the county and I drive the main road
Searchin' in the sun for another overload
I hear you singin' in the wire
I can hear you through the whine
And the Wichita Lineman is still on the line

I know I need a small vacation but it don't look like rain
And if it snows that stretch down south won't ever stand the strain
And I need you more than want you
And I want you for all time
And the Wichita Lineman is still on the line

Glen Campbell - Wichita Lineman

A lot of people have covered Jolene, including The Sisters of Mercy ...

Dolly Parton original - if "resigned desperation" exists, this is it.
The White Stripes
Strawberry Switchblade
Queen Adreena - I'm afraid I hate this version and the video more so.

And on the fifth anniversary of his passing, here's The Man in Black's version of the Nine Inch Nails song,

Johnny Cash - Hurt

Orlando.

Some friends and I went through a phase of playing 12" singles and EP's records at slow speeds.

SOS - ABBA sounds like a lost sisters song
Falling - Julee Cruz Her voice is so high-pitched that when slowed down it sounded like a baritone soul singer.

But strangest of all I had a record player that could play reords at 16rpm - this produces a terrifying wall of strange music but imagine my surp[rise when testing a Bauhaus B-Side Paranoia, Paranoia when in the middle of the mush of slowed down sounds out wafted a perfect reproduction of a Hawaian Guitar solo....

They were most odd that Bauhaus lot.

Hmm, is the darker side of country music not some form of American Gothic? Take, for example, "Ode to Billie Joe", as performed by Bobbie Gentry- I'd say that was Gothic by any other name!

PS: Wichita Lineman- what a wonderful piece of music! Covered by an offshoot of Calexico- The Friends of Dean Martinez- with great skill!

Also, while I'm here, 'Jolene' was also covered by Strawberry Switchblade, which is helping me to show my age...

Herr Döktor wrote:
Also, while I'm here, 'Jolene' was also covered by Strawberry Switchblade, which is helping me to show my age...

Presumably for remembering the original, not the cover?

Not terribly on topic, but the mention of "Jolene" forced me to make this small deviation. A friend hipped me to Dolly Parton back in college, and "Jolene" quickly became one of my favorite songs. It is also the first time I have heard - in the White Stripes version - a cover song which was performed by somebody of the opposite sex from the original artist, yet did not gender-swap the lyrics.

I have been a White Stripes fan ever since.

Herr Döktor wrote:Hmm, is the darker side of country music not some form of American Gothic? Take, for example, "Ode to Billie Joe", as performed by Bobbie Gentry- I'd say that was Gothic by any other name!

And here it is: Bobbie Gentry - Ode To Billy Joe

Wikipedia: Ode to Billie Joe and for a pic of the bridge see: Tallahatchie River

Tanuki wrote:Not terribly on topic, but the mention of "Jolene" forced me to make this small deviation. A friend hipped me to Dolly Parton back in college, and "Jolene" quickly became one of my favorite songs. It is also the first time I have heard - in the White Stripes version - a cover song which was performed by somebody of the opposite sex from the original artist, yet did not gender-swap the lyrics.

I always find it slightly jarring the first time you hear it happen with a well known song.
For example, Kate Bush - Rocket Man

Orlando.

Now I never would have thought of it as Gothic, but so long as we're talking about Jolene, Dolly Parton once said she thought Mindy Smith's version was better than her own: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcDBgXbGskc

In that vein, Darrel Scott has quite that vibe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su06XlGI-w8, and of course Joanna Newsom, as originally suggested by lilibat.

Regina Spektor, Maybe? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx_655_mL5U.

Tell me, how does "the cult" fare under this measuring system?

The Dresden Dolls, The Tiger Lilies, and Jill Tracy. And The Guild of Funerary Violinists which is the most steamgoth thing, like, ever. Check them out.

Zepherius wrote:Now I never would have thought of it as Gothic, but so long as we're talking about Jolene, Dolly Parton once said she thought Mindy Smith's version was better than her own: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcDBgXbGskc

In that vein, Darrel Scott has quite that vibe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su06XlGI-w8, and of course Joanna Newsom, as originally suggested by lilibat.

Regina Spektor, Maybe? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx_655_mL5U.

I probably should have put something by way of explanation in the introductory post in the thread for the benefit of anyone new to the forum or unfamiliar with the original thread at Brass Goggles but of course you're neither of these so I'll just use the opportunity to say that the idea of "Goth music not usually considered to be goth music" was based on the sort of music I used to hear played on a Live365 internet radio station (unfortunately no longer around). I think I know the lady's current home on the web and when we get back home I'll try and contact her and ask her if she would like to take a look at the thread. It was in fact there that I first heard Joanna Newsom.

When I first met Goths, one of the things about them that really impressed me was that they didn't give a damn about whether anything was trendy or acceptable to anyone else, and if they liked a thing then that was good enough. In case anyone thinks I have a "rose-tinted", idealised picture of the Goth world then all I can say is that this was in 1986 and some of the more recent things I've heard about "mall Goths" who buy all their gear from Hot Topic, I just don't have any experience of this. Of course, I live in the UK and in my nearest town, if a woman even wears a black dress during the hours of daylight, she is likely to have someone yell at her, "Halloween is next month, Morticia! Ha ha ha!".

Anyway, what I've found is that people who say they are interested in Goth music usually have pretty good taste in music and eclectic record collections, and I've discovered all sorts of really great stuff I hadn't heard before as a result of this thread - Mindy Smith's Jolene, Darrel Scott's You'll Never Leave Harlan Alive and Regina Spektor's Apres Moi are perfect examples of this.

Smaggers wrote:Tell me, how does "the cult" fare under this measuring system?

Well, my purely personal thought is that The Cult and also The Mission (UK) are rock bands. I'm not a huge fan of either (and not really that familiar with The Cult) but I like some of their stuff - I've linked a couple of versions of Sanctuary before and Tower of Strength by the Mission, so here I'll point to: The Mission - Severina and leave you to pick the best from the Cult.

MaggotyAnne wrote:The Dresden Dolls, The Tiger Lilies, and Jill Tracy. And The Guild of Funerary Violinists which is the most steamgoth thing, like, ever. Check them out.

Jill Tracy has been mentioned before (I wonder who did? Without access to the original thread, I won't try and guess).
The Guild of Funerary Violinists, (Wikipedia: Funerary Violin), What a fantastic idea - to "expand the notion of musical composition to encompass the creation of an entire artistic genre, with its necessary accompanying history, mythology, philosophy, social function, etc."
Link to some examples - some of the .mp3s didn't play for me, but here's one that worked fine: The Erroneous Dirge of George Babcotte (.mp3 file, <4MB).

I've got something else to post but I think I'll do it tomorrow as this one is long enough!

Orlando.

Brass Goggles is working again!

Here is a link back to the thread at Brass Goggles.

Many thanks to Pheobsky for his provision of the Spare Goggles replacement service.

I'll come back here to check on things from time to time.

Will the last one out of here please remember to switch the lights off.

Orlando.

Orlando wrote:Brass Goggles is working again!

Here is a link back to the thread at Brass Goggles.

Many thanks to Pheobsky for his provision of the Spare Goggles replacement service.

I'll come back here to check on things from time to time.

Will the last one out of here please remember to switch the lights off.

Orlando.

LIES! I can't access the forum!

MaggotyAnne wrote:

Orlando wrote:Brass Goggles is working again!

LIES! I can't access the forum!

Yes, it currently says "Forum temporarily suspended"!
I wasn't logged in there very long - just long enough to put a link to here!

Never mind, we'll just carry on...

When I heard Darrel Scott's You'll Never Leave Harlan Alive, it reminded me of Bruce Springsteen -Factory.
The video used is wholly inappropriate for the song but it has the best audio of any versions at YouTube.

Orlando.

Somewhere at Brass Goggles a few weeks ago, french speaking Canadian, Chicar posted about Claire Pelletier
I think the context must have been Steampunk music because the first song/video is about Galileo. The quality is not that great in some of the Claire Pelletier videos at YouTube so you will have to take my word for just how good these tracks can sound. Claire Pelletier CDs are available in the UK as expensive "imports" at Amazon.

Claire Pelletier - Galileo (from the 2000 album of the same name)

I don't speak French at all well but I got enough of the lyrics to want to look at them properly. You can find them at the discographie page at Claire Pelletier's website. I ran the lyrics through Google Translator and printed them side by side to work on a translation. Here is what I started with ...

Spoiler:

Galileo Ce soir le ciel est au plus doux Tu vas mesurer les étoiles Hors de ta chambre de Padoue La science neuve fera scandale Voici la terre, elle prend le large Elle bouge et tourne dans les nuages Voici la terre, astre mobile Qui danse et quitte son domicile Et si d'abord étaient les choses Avant que l'on y mette un nom Et si d'abord les faits s'imposent Nos yeux peut-être sont trahisons Galileo Galilei Ce vaste monde est si petit Galileo Galilei Ce petit monde est infini Galileo Message céleste dans ta lentille La lune est noire et la terre brille Le ciel te livre ses secrets Il n'y a plus de corps parfaits Que bouge la tête de nos savants Les vérités théologiques De nos corbeaux académiques S'en vont se perdre dans le temps Galileo Galilei Ce vaste monde est si petit Galileo Galilei Ce petit monde est infini Ce petit monde est infini Galileo La terre tourne et moi je tombe Galileo Le terre tourne et moi je tombe Galileo C'est pour un temps seulement Galileo C'est pour un temps seulement Galileo...

Galileo Tonight the sky is the sweetest You'll measure the stars Outside your room of Padua Will be neuve science scandal Here is land, it takes off It moves and turns in the clouds Here is land, mobile star Dancing and leaves his home And if things were the first Before that it put a name And if the facts first necessary Our eyes are perhaps betrayals Galileo Galilei The wide world is so small Galileo Galilei This little world is infinite Galileo Heavenly message in your lens The moon is black and earth shines The sky book you its secrets There is no more perfect body That moves the head of our scientists The theological truths Our academic Ravens Go get lost in time Galileo Galilei The wide world is so small Galileo Galilei This little world is infinite This little world is infinite Galileo The earth rotates and I fell Galileo The earth rotates and I fell Galileo For a time only Galileo For a time only Galileo ...

As you can see, a French teacher would probably use the red pen on the young Google's effort!
The other video Chicar posted is slightly more gothic in sound and subject matter...

Claire Pelletier - L'an mil (from the album Murmures d'histoire, 1996)

It was this one that got my attention first time around and why I started playing with the online translators - I was having problems with the vocabulary and don't have a good dictionary. Yahoo! Babel Fish translated "Gargouilles vivantes et désespoir, Crachats du diable et forces du mal"
as "Alive waste-gas mains and despair, Spittles of the devil and forces of the evil".
Hmm, could do better, C-. Googles version below.

Spoiler:

L'An Mil J'ai vu un homme ce matin Tenant un crâne dans sa main Criant très fort : Je suis devin Criant très fort : C'est le destin Ma mère ma mère que ferons-nous Voilà l'an mil, les maladies La faim, la peur, les incendies Ne vois-tu pas la gueule du loup ? Bientôt le règne de Satan Bientôt la gloire du serpent Il attendait depuis mille ans Son heure de gloire est là devant Que félonie ma fille, que félonie Nul ne sait ni le jour ni l'heure Que la calomnie ma fille, que calomnie Mets bouclier devant ton coeur Sur les murs de la cathédrale Partout des ombres rouges et noires Gargouilles vivantes et désespoir Crachats du diable et forces du mal Mon père, mon père que ferons-nous Viennent les calendes de décembre Et Lucifer va nous y prendre Certains l'ont vu dans le Poitou Le corps et l'âme seront en feu Les signes sont là devant nos yeux Mon père, mon père, je crains le pire Mon père, mon père, vais-je mourir ? Que félonie, mon fils, que félonie Nul ne sait ni le jour ni l'heure Que la calomnie, mon fils, que calomnie Mets bouclier devant ton coeur Dans les vapeurs de ton sommeil La terre tremble à ton réveil Le diable attend au bout du lit Et même les moines ont leur folie Oh mes enfants tout affolés Oh mes enfants tout apeurés Et le silence de notre Dieu Vous rend frileux, vous rend fiévreux Oh mes enfants le monde est grand Et dans nos coeurs l'espoir petit Oh mes enfants même dans mille ans Nous serons là, le diable aussi Que félonie, mon fils, que félonie Nul ne sait ni le jour ni l'heure Que la calomnie, ma fille, que calomnie Mets bouclier devant ton coeur Nul ne sait ni le jour ni l'heure Que calomnie, ma fille, que calomnie Mets bouclier devant ton coeur

Year Mil I saw a man this morning Holding a skull in his hand Shouting very hard: I'm soothsayer Shouting very hard: This is the destiny My mother that my mother will we This year millet, diseases Hunger, fear, fire Do you not see the lion's den? Soon the kingdom of Satan Soon the glory of the snake He waited for a thousand years His moment of glory is there before That my daughter felony, that felony No one knows neither the day nor the hour That my daughter libel, slander that Mets shield to your heart On the walls of the cathedral Everywhere shadows red and black Gargoyles live and despair Spitting devil and forces of evil My father, my father what will we do Calends come in December And Lucifer will take Some have seen in the Poitou The body and soul are on fire The signs are there before our eyes My father, my father, I fear the worst My father, my father, will I die? Felony that, my son, that felony No one knows neither the day nor the hour What slander, my son, that slander Mets shield to your heart In the fumes of your sleep The earth trembles to your revival The devil looks at the end of the bed Even the monks have their madness Oh my children while distraught Oh my children while frightened And the silence of our God Makes you cautious, makes you feverish Oh my children the world is great And in our hearts the hope small Oh my children even in a thousand years We will be there, the devil also Felony that, my son, that felony No one knows neither the day nor the hour What slander, my daughter, that slander Mets shield to your heart No one knows neither the day nor the hour What slander my daughter that slander Mets shield to your heart

Ok, so it's not perfect but it gives you a start - I'm pretty sure "Mets" should have got translated to "puts" though.
The next one is a proper promotional video although the one given below at YouTube is rather poor quality...

Claire Pelletier - Poussiére d'etoiles (=Stardust. From Murmures d'histoire)

If you have QuickTime installed, you can see and hear it rather better here - it's the first one on the page.

Spoiler:

Poussière d'étoiles C'est Nicole Guilbault, ethnologue et professeure de lettres au Cégep François-Xavier-Garneau, qui nous a signalé l'existence de cette légende indienne intitulée L'origine terrestre du soleil, de la lune et des étoiles. Encore une fois, comme chez Platon, la lumière était au rendez-vous. C'était au temps d'avant le temps La terre était tombée du ciel Portée par le plus grand des vents Les arbres, la mer, les noctuelles Dans les buissons près des grands saules Les hommes, les femmes et les enfants Les yeux fermés, le coeur battant Seul sans bouger, dans les rhizomes Sur cette terre sans soleil Que de la crainte que de la peur Toujours la nuit toujours les veilles De grandes rumeurs dans la noirceur Et dans ce monde d'avant le temps Jamais la mort, jamais le blanc Jamais le jour, même hésitant Et pour toujours, le noir néant Poussière d'étoiles Sur l'océan Pluie sidérale Voilà le temps Les femmes firent un Grand Conseil Ô Dieu donne-nous de la lumière Car comment vivre sur cette terre Sans jamais voir tous ses pareils Femmes je vous donne le soleil Mais en échange de cette merveille Vous quitterez un jour vos corps Vous connaîtrez la fin, la mort Poussière d'étoiles Sur l'océan Pluie sidérale Voilà le temps Ô Dieu la vie, Ô Dieu merci Ô Dieu le jour, Ô Dieu l'aurore Le bleu du ciel, la lune qui luit Le bleu d'la nuit, le réconfort Les hommes, les femmes connurent la mort Et les esprits sortaient des corps En kyrielles montaient au ciel Étoiles nouvelles pour l'éternel Poussière d'étoiles Sur l'océan Pluie sidérale Voilà le temps Ô Dieu la vie, Ô Dieu merci Ô Dieu le jour, Ô Dieu l'aurore Le bleu du ciel, la lune qui luit Le bleu d'la nuit, le réconfort C'était au temps d'avant le temps Le temps d'avant le temps C'était au temps d'avant le temps Le temps d'avant le temps

Star Dust This is Nicole Guilbault, anthropologist and professor of letters at Cégep François-Xavier Garneau, who reported the existence of this Indian legend entitled The terrestrial origin of the sun, moon and stars. Again, as in Plato, the light was on, too. It was the time before time The land had fallen from the sky Buoyed by the largest wind Trees, sea, moths In the bushes near major willows Men, women and children Eyes closed, the beating heart Only motionless in the rhizomes On this land without sun As the fear of fear Always the night always watches Large rumors in the dark And in this world before time Not death, not white Not the day, even hesitant And always, the black nothingness Star Dust On Ocean Rain sidereal This is the time Women made a Grand Council O God give us the light For how to live on this earth Without ever seeing all these Women I give you the sun But in exchange for this wonder You leave some day your body You know the end, death Star Dust On Ocean Rain sidereal This is the time Oh God life, O God thank you Oh God the day, O God the dawn The blue sky, the moon shines The blue of the night, comfort Men, women experienced the death And minds of emerging body In wealth amounted to heaven New stars for the eternal Star Dust On Ocean Rain sidereal This is the time Oh God life, O God thank you Oh God the day, O God the dawn The blue sky, the moon shines The blue of the night, comfort It was the time before time The time before time It was the time before time The time before time

Strangely, the columns don't quite line up when I preview this - I wonder if a non-printing character has sneaked across in the cut'n'paste from OpenOffice Writer. There is one more at YouTube and it is also from the first album Murmures d'histoire. Had it been available, I would have liked to post a link to Grimoire pour le temps présent from the Galileo album, but never mind, this is pretty good!

Claire Pelletier - Le vaisseau fantôme (=The ghost ship)

Spoiler:

Le vaisseau fantôme Une chanson à la mémoire des goélettes qui vivaient sur notre fleuve jusqu'au début des années 1970. Ce fleuve est habitable. Chaque marée peut nous ramener des morceaux de notre histoire. Le ciel était bas Et la brume épaisse Y'avait du frimas Au bord des falaises Sur l'île aux Corneilles Long le foin de mer Et dans mes oreilles Le bruit de la mer Je l'ai vu venir Sa voile était blanche Bleu comme un saphir Une masse étrange Là-bas sur les flots La mémoire des eaux Là-bas sur les flots La mémoire des eaux J'ai failli crier Tomber à genoux Les voiles ont claqué Suis restée debout J'ai vu des marins Devant sur la proue J'ai vu des marins Ou des hommes fous J'ai vu Crusoé Parler à Noé Ce fleuve était beau Où sont les bateaux Là-bas sur les flots La mémoire des eaux Là-bas sur les flots La mémoire des eaux La nuit dans les îles De Kamouraska Ils ont domicile Maîtres du noroît Il est immortel Le Monica L. C'était rue de l'Anse Mon adolescence C'est bientôt l'aurore Je reste sur le bord Ce pays est beau Que viennent les vaisseaux Ce pays est beau Que viennent les vaisseaux Là-bas sur les flots La mémoire des eaux Là-bas sur les flots La mémoire des eaux

The ghost ship A song in memory of schooners who lived on our river until the early 1970s. The river is habitable. Each trip can bring us back pieces of our history. The sky was low And the thick haze Y'avait of frost At the edge of cliffs On the island Crow Long hay sea And in my ears The sound of the sea I saw it coming Her veil was white Blue as a sapphire A mass strange There on the waves The memory of water There on the waves The memory of water I almost cry Falling to its knees The sails have slammed 'm Still standing I saw marine Front on the bow I saw marine Or men crazy I saw Crusoe Talking to Noah The river was beautiful Where are the boats There on the waves The memory of water There on the waves The memory of water The night in the islands Kamouraska They have home Masters Noroît He is immortal The Monica L. It was rue de l'Anse My adolescence It soon dawn I remain on the board This country is beautiful Just vessels This country is beautiful Just vessels There on the waves The memory of water There on the waves The memory of water

And finally, to finish in French, here is Plastic Bertrand - Ca Plane Pour Moi.
Don't worry about the lyrics for this one!

Au revoir, mes copains!

Orlando.

Right then, the Eighties!
Or rather, the early Eighties. Two of these are extremely well known with a rather camp appeal today. The one in the middle is hardly obscure, but may be unfamiliar if you're not from the UK.

Bonnie Tyler - Total Eclipse of the Heart (1980) According to Wikipedia, Wuthering Heights was the inspiration for the songwriter, Jim Steinman (and it's as epic as his Bat Out of Hell) and with a strangely creepy nightmarish video.

Hazel O' Connor - Will you (1981) This song featured in the film starring Hazel O'Connor, Breaking Glass. The film was co-produced by the late Dodi Al-Fayed (yes the very same one!). I have a paperback novel of the film's story (published as film merchandising) which my mother bought on the off-chance I'd be interested in it when she was browsing in a charity shop. I was most surprised to find by the inscription inside the front cover that the previous owner was one of my girlfriend's old school chums! The song has a saxaphone solo which I think is far superior to the one in the more well known Baker Street by Gerry Rafferty.

I've always found this last song rather haunting. (But I'm not quite sure in what sense I find the video "frightening"!).
Kim Carnes - Bette Davis Eyes (1981)

Orlando.